wxPythonPit Apps: An unorderd summary of questions, suggestons and thought

Hi,

I hesitated to post this (today already), but what shalls. :slight_smile:

This message is a unordered mess, so please forgive me;
it is a summary of my notes written down the last days.

I'm really engaged to make this wxPython overview better
or structure it new and update it to 2006.
It is a private need, or how to put it. :wink:

Also I have a lot of questions and I'm a litle overcharged in some way.
And also only open thoughts, which i want to present
to you all the same.

Maybe better to split this big message in several smaller threads
and try to find a solution
(ask questions also in comp.lang.python).

I want to make the page still better, more information, overview and
more beautiful.

Remarks will be deleted later or changed, it the open questions are solved or answered
Anyway there are many libraries needed, but I had no time/wish to rewrite, what in that
  special case is/are needed.

I tried out most of the apps (meanwhile basically all).
I don't want to complain but it was a long search and trying out, and
it was almost a nightmare, and many lay for years here without
attention, partly programed a little careless (what a lot of downloads and search) :wink:
But this was interesting.

Many of them needs a lot of external libraries.
(twisted, pysql keyphrene, ... lot more).

A quite number are still left, they are old or I couldn't find or
apply the libraries, or are only for linux, or need unicode builds or
use old namespace and/or are not compatible anymore.

I have tested these programs on wxPython 2.6.1 and Python 2.4,
ansi and on Windows XP:
Finally I want to run all these programs without packed exe, only with the source.

my annotations (mixed with little german):
Metarmorphose: braucht man einen unicode build (grrr).
sepy: ImportError: No module named pyRXP; kleines encoding problem?
spe: AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'WIN'
bittorrent: add this program; AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'set'
  (solved?)
  Bittorrent add this program ://www.bittorrent.com/
    elsa: File "c:\temp\BitTorrent-4.20.2\BitTorrent\RawServer_twisted.py", line 772, in create_mu
      lticastsocket
      AttributeError: 'Proactor' object has no attribute 'listenMulticast'
      What should this be?
    'Port' object has no attribute 'joinGroup'
cdgtols: old imports (need updating) (corrects itself)
debug view filer: NameError: global name 'showerrors' is not defined; fehler, if no debug monitor is installed.
ipodder: only linux; not working (Check-version, then problem with radio box index)
btmanager: module conflict with python23.dll (in exe version), source version isn't working anyway
Cornice: No module named Image (other Python or wxPython version; on other pc it works)
PictureResizer.pyw: No module named Image (andere Python oder wxPython version; on other pc it works)
Application Launcer startet nicht. traceback bei source und bei exe sieht man gar nichts
bookmarks manager: also traceback link: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bkm
fonty python: neueres pil installieren; runs only on linux
MacFlightGear: runs only on max (own category; only runs on x platform)
wxappabr: Traceback (most recent call last):
            File "C:\Eigene Dateien\wxpython\apps\wxAppBar\wxappbar\appbar.py", line 2, in ?
            from wxappbar import _appbar, winmsgproc, events, grip
            File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\wxappbar\grip.py", line 2, in ?
            from wxoo import windowdrag
              ImportError: No module named wxoo
wxremind: braucht ein ini file (vorher anlegen .reminders in homedir); difficult to intflate the tar.gz
dirsync: lässt sich nicht starten (geändert auf run.py)
gimini: ImportError: No module named clip_dnd
wxpyatol: No module named calldll
bioimagexd: ImportError: No module named vtk
ImportError: No module named vtk
bitpim: ImportError: No module named serial
neveredit: Faulty neveredit installation: could not import main class.
nwntools (binary?) could not install, didn't work.
polymer: ImportError: No module named infotrope.acap (exe tested)
pyalarm: ImportError: No module named mad
  is now Dave's Stupid Alarm Clock ; no designer; throw away? (is now qt)
    older versions can be put forward.
pydbdesigner: very old;AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'wxDividedShape'
    Traceback (most recent call last):
          File "c:\Eigene Dateien\wxpython\apps\PyDBDesigner\main.py", line 4, in ?
            from wxPython import ogl
        ImportError: cannot import name ogl
    'module' object has no attribute 'wxDividedShape'
taskcoach: change one line to make it run on ansi.
thuban: ImportError: No module named shapelib; exe geth auch nicht; python23.dll (auch neue braucht wxmswuh##.dll)
gnumed: TypeError: __int__ returned non-int (type instance)
  doesn't run, investigate why
Workbench: ImportError: No module named splitter
  import wx.lib.splitter why? If I start python interpreter, this is no problem
Transana: ist auch so ein riesending (source über cvs, geht auch mit exe nciht)

Escecially the darned ( :wink: ) vtk library, I didn't get it run.
I downloaded vtk and the python installer, but when I start
  no module named vtk! grrr! :wink:

I try to get them run, if possible in the next days/weeks.

The other programs listed on the page run! :wink:

Nevertheless, I plan on putting footnotes under the according table
with very little font hights to not scatter the page unnecessary.

Is this possible? to put footmarks not at the end of page, but
directly under the according table?
requires unicode; only run on one platform; or library xyz not found/ could
  not install.

Optimal and useful would be to have the wiki page functionalities
on my pc to edit offline, and then if the output fits,
I upload and submit the page.

1) What have I to download? http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de ??

2) how can I install this on my pc?

Other question:
for example the pyalarm.
The project name has changed. Ok, I can rename the page.
But it is now using pyQt. Shall we still keep the app (with
a footmark or other annotation to point at that) and
present the last working wxPython version?

Ok, I make a little more fuss about it, as necessary,
but I think, it is worth the work, because also
this page could be a showcase of wxPythons capabilities
and success stories.

Also for the projects:
If (ok many peoply leave or do not read this anymore) the maintainer
could create a wiki page (it exceeds my free time) and
present a expressive screenshot with some lines of text and a link
to the according homepage, it would be fine.

I want to run all the projects with one wxpyhton version.

(Half of the apps don't need unicode, excpet maybe a office text program like open office or publishing programs.
I don't care for I18N at any rate, they have simply bad luck.
English is not that hard to learn, to understand at least the basics.

1) Unicode is more prone to errors and is a pain to program.
2) all people should have english as second language,
  at least regarding for programs. My english is also
  bad, but I understand at least most of the texts.

Sorry Frank, that is why I don't like it more
beside it is a beautiful program (Taskcoach),
that it relys on unicode, although only one line
have to be replaced, to run on ansi.

How many of you have the unicode version installed?
Do you have problems?
Is it a problem, to have ansi and unicode installed side by side?
With wxversion select or wx.pth change; which way is better?
Is it to recommend to change to Python 2.5?

I hate it, when programs require unicode and therefore
it refuses to start, or need a external library without
showing the user in a messagebox or so, what is missing
and point to a download page, rather then dissapearing in a traceback.
Also the more, if a program is packed in an exe container.
I don't like unicode anyway and I never want to install a unicode
wxPython, ...
Also I never would offer a program in different languages.
I once tried it and it is a *LOT* of work (po and mo files,
a template, attend it and wait for translation ... and not worth
for me the cost at no rate.
Also I don't care much for a program documentation, a program should be more s
self-explanatory, and only key features or difficult to understand, I would provide
an extra text.

Then you should have installed two versions.
Is it possible, to have a program run in ansi AND unicode,
if it is easy?

Is it possible to colour a table entry (if there are some problems with the app?)

how to provide a link to wxpython libs: also from wxpython libs to pitapps?

What about a system of assessment?
Category complex, simple.
Good/ not so good,
Useful/ rather useless.

For the project ideas:
I don't find it good if I make suggestions, and give my personaly priority.
Other people also can have the same project wish and give it another importance.

But all the same you can answere already now,
if you have an answer to the one or another point
or simply want to tell your opinion! :slight_smile:

to Frank: How to use this macro: sortby.py

What with a category:
(really) maintained: yes, then name or no (empty field).

···

--
Franz Steinhaeusler

Hi Franz,

Simple/Complex is kinda ok… I mean, I do have 2 simple apps I almost finished… and from a source code perspective are very very simple.

Good/Not good… is not for you to say… Working/Not Working maybe if you give the test conditions like you did… Alpha/Beta/Release quality assessment would be nice too

Useful/rather useless is again… a subjective thing… for example I could give you my sevencube translator and for you it would be useless, a fantasy of a world where you could get a person to understand simple concepts by using numbers… However, the original creator of the system liked the app because it took away a lot of tedious work, I love it too even if I didn’t touch it in 2 years for sentimental reasons: it was the app that taught me Unicode… (trying to juggle English, Chinese, Russian, and my own native Romanian dictionaries was an interesting experience)

In closing I would like to say thank you for your effort, I for one appreciate it and I’m 100% sure that I’m not alone in this.

Keep up the good work!

Peter

···

On 10/10/06, Franz Steinhaeusler franz.steinhaeusler@gmx.at wrote:


What about a system of assessment?
Category complex, simple.
Good/ not so good,
Useful/ rather useless.


There is NO FATE, we are the creators.

Peter Damoc wrote:

...
What about a system of assessment?
Category complex, simple.
Good/ not so good,
Useful/ rather useless.

Hi Franz,

Simple/Complex is kinda ok... I mean, I do have 2 simple apps I almost
finished... and from a source code perspective are very very simple.

Good/Not good.... is not for you to say...

Yes I know, but if more users could rate a program.
Of course, that is dangerous, if one author is angry about
a bad assessment, so this is better to drop.
But we could highlight some especially good things about a program.
A good coding stlye, an exemplary gui interface, user friendly, ...
and no bad comments.

Working/Not Working maybe if you
give the test conditions like you did...

Or comment: need updating on linux, requires unicode, ...

Alpha/Beta/Release quality
assessment would be nice too

Useful/rather useless is again... a subjective thing...

I mean, fitted to work with it, no tracebacks.
But that applies also to what I wrote above.
Maybe only the author himselft has the right to mark this.

for example I could
give you my sevencube translator and for you it would be useless, a fantasy
of a world where you could get a person to understand simple concepts by
using numbers... However, the original creator of the system liked the app
because it took away a lot of tedious work, I love it too even if I didn't
touch it in 2 years for sentimental reasons: it was the app that taught me
Unicode... (trying to juggle English, Chinese, Russian, and my own native
Romanian dictionaries was an interesting experience)

In closing I would like to say thank you for your effort, I for one
appreciate it and I'm 100% sure that I'm not alone in this.

Keep up the good work!

Peter

Thank you, it is a pleasure for me.

Its also a little selfish. I want to collect the wxPython programs,
and I can look at (if I remember a certain dialog, feature, ...)
or search through the source code, if I have for example
a problem with a MultiSplitterWindow etc.

···

On 10/10/06, Franz Steinhaeusler <franz.steinhaeusler@gmx.at> wrote:

--
Franz Steinhaeusler

gnumed: TypeError: __int__ returned non-int (type instance)
  doesn't run, investigate why

Please provide details on your test environment. For one
thing you'll need a unicode build.

I mean, we got Debian packages out there which certainly
work, and we got the thing running in a few offices right
now.

I want to run all the projects with one wxpyhton version.

That won't work.

(Half of the apps don't need unicode, excpet maybe a office text program like open office or publishing programs.

It's not your job to decide that.

I don't care for I18N at any rate, they have simply bad luck.

So, if your doctor doesn't understand enough English you die
(trust me, I *am* a doctor). Because GNUmed didn't bother to
translate it's UI into German. Tough luck for you, I guess.

English is not that hard to learn, to understand at least the basics.

This point of view towards testing application runnability
is entirely unacceptable, I'd say.

1) Unicode is more prone to errors and is a pain to program.
2) all people should have english as second language,
  at least regarding for programs. My english is also
  bad, but I understand at least most of the texts.

Sorry Frank, that is why I don't like it more
beside it is a beautiful program (Taskcoach),
that it relys on unicode, although only one line
have to be replaced, to run on ansi.

You need to rethink your reasoning on this.

Karsten, MD, PhD
Leipzig, Germany

···

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 08:57:58PM +0000, Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
--
GPG key ID E4071346 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net
E167 67FD A291 2BEA 73BD 4537 78B9 A9F9 E407 1346

Karsten Hilbert wrote:

Hello Karsten,

gnumed: TypeError: __int__ returned non-int (type instance)
  doesn't run, investigate why

Please provide details on your test environment. For one
thing you'll need a unicode build.

I really made a quick summary.
I tested 50 applications, and did not go into detail.

I mean, we got Debian packages out there which certainly
work, and we got the thing running in a few offices right
now.

I believe you certainly.

I want to run all the projects with one wxpyhton version.

That won't work.

Ok.

(Half of the apps don't need unicode, excpet maybe a office text program like open office or publishing programs.

It's not your job to decide that.

Was not so meant. :wink:
Ok, was a little ironically.

I don't care for I18N at any rate, they have simply bad luck.

So, if your doctor doesn't understand enough English you die
(trust me, I *am* a doctor). Because GNUmed didn't bother to
translate it's UI into German. Tough luck for you, I guess.

see above.

English is not that hard to learn, to understand at least the basics.

This point of view towards testing application runnability
is entirely unacceptable, I'd say.

1) Unicode is more prone to errors and is a pain to program.
2) all people should have english as second language,
  at least regarding for programs. My english is also
  bad, but I understand at least most of the texts.

Sorry Frank, that is why I don't like it more
beside it is a beautiful program (Taskcoach),
that it relys on unicode, although only one line
have to be replaced, to run on ansi.

You need to rethink your reasoning on this.

Yes.
Sorry, I didn't think of it.
I more meant the small utility programs or text editors.

···

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 08:57:58PM +0000, Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:

Karsten, MD, PhD
Leipzig, Germany

--
Franz Steinhaeusler

Hi Franz,

Franz Steinhaeusler:

(Half of the apps don't need unicode, excpet maybe a office text program like open office or publishing programs.
I don't care for I18N at any rate, they have simply bad luck.
English is not that hard to learn, to understand at least the basics.

My users don't think so, otherwise they wouldn't take the trouble to help translate Task Coach into German, Russian, Japanese, etc.

1) Unicode is more prone to errors and is a pain to program.
2) all people should have english as second language,
  at least regarding for programs. My english is also bad, but I understand at least most of the texts.

Sorry Frank, that is why I don't like it more beside it is a beautiful program (Taskcoach),
that it relys on unicode, although only one line
have to be replaced, to run on ansi.

I guess we are in strong disagreement here. One of my purposes when I developed Task Coach is to make it an application that is usable for users that are not computer-savvy and that is as user-friendly as I can make it. Hence the installer for the Windows platform. I wished I knew how to do something similar for Linux so people don't have to worry about Python and wxPython at all.

to Frank: How to use this macro: sortby.py

See my other mail on that subject.

Cheers, Frank

I tested 50 applications,

That by itself is a good thing. Thanks.

I really made a quick summary.
and did not go into detail.

Oh, you did. There where enough clues in that other mail.

Thanks,
Karsten

···

On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 04:03:22PM +0000, Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
--
GPG key ID E4071346 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net
E167 67FD A291 2BEA 73BD 4537 78B9 A9F9 E407 1346

Frank Niessink wrote:

Hi Franz,

Franz Steinhaeusler:

(Half of the apps don't need unicode, excpet maybe a office text program like open office or publishing programs.
I don't care for I18N at any rate, they have simply bad luck.
English is not that hard to learn, to understand at least the basics.

My users don't think so, otherwise they wouldn't take the trouble to
help translate Task Coach into German, Russian, Japanese, etc.

Ok, I understand your position.

1) Unicode is more prone to errors and is a pain to program.
2) all people should have english as second language,
  at least regarding for programs. My english is also
  bad, but I understand at least most of the texts.

Sorry Frank, that is why I don't like it more
beside it is a beautiful program (Taskcoach),
that it relys on unicode, although only one line
have to be replaced, to run on ansi.

I guess we are in strong disagreement here.

You're not alone, Karsten Hilbert also today (and not to less)!

One of my purposes when I
developed Task Coach is to make it an application that is usable for
users that are not computer-savvy and that is as user-friendly as I can
make it. Hence the installer for the Windows platform. I wished I knew
how to do something similar for Linux so people don't have to worry
about Python and wxPython at all.

Accepted.

to Frank: How to use this macro: sortby.py

See my other mail on that subject.

I saw. :wink:

Cheers, Frank

regards,

PS: I accept the standpoint, for the wxPython Pit Apps page,
my personal opinion should not influence it at all.

So unicode or the translations regarding I18N is apparantly
important.

···

--
Franz Steinhaeusler