[wxPython] would you use PythonCard?

Kevin_Altis · August 27, 2001, 9:17pm

Hi,
most of you have probably seen PythonCard
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/
posts to the wxpython-users list.

I would like to get a feel for how many wxPython users on the list are even
remotely interested in PythonCard? Just as importantly, I would like to know
particular reasons for a lack of interest. This will help to focus how the
prototype evolves and who the target audience is. If you're in the camp of
"What the heck is PythonCard and why the heck should I care?" then I refer
you to the home page above first and can then answer any specific questions
you may have.

The more criticism the better. You can reply to this thread or email me
directly and I'll summarize for the list.

Thanks for your time,

ka

···

---
Kevin Altis
altis@semi-retired.com

ps. If you *are* interested in PythonCard, you should join the mailing list
to contribute feedback...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users

Doug · August 28, 2001, 12:14pm

Hi Kevin:

I fall into a class of wxPython users who:
   1. Wish you the best with PythonCard, and think it may be valuable
       for quite a few python users, regardless of whether it is valuable
for me.
   2. Looked at Boa and saw it consume the machine.
   3. Have an editor that works as a good Python dev environment.
   4. Found that wxPython enables me to work well in my dev environment,
and
       structure my gui code well.

I almost downloaded PythonCard to take a look a few weeks ago.
I would use PythonCard if:
   1. The code it generates is well structured, readable, fully covers
       the details available within wxPython, and can be effectively used
       outside the PythonCard environment as well as within it.
   2. I would benefit mostly from using a tool that facilitates gui
building, i.e.
       placement/size etc. The kinds of things that are still time
consuming and
       iterative with wxPython.

I hope this helps, and I wish you luck,

Doug Hoppe

···

-----Original Message-----
From: wxpython-users-admin@lists.wxwindows.org
[mailto:wxpython-users-admin@lists.wxwindows.org]On Behalf Of Kevin
Altis
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 5:17 PM
To: Wxpython-Users
Subject: [wxPython] would you use PythonCard?

Hi,
most of you have probably seen PythonCard
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/
posts to the wxpython-users list.

I would like to get a feel for how many wxPython users on the list are even
remotely interested in PythonCard? Just as importantly, I would like to know
particular reasons for a lack of interest. This will help to focus how the
prototype evolves and who the target audience is. If you're in the camp of
"What the heck is PythonCard and why the heck should I care?" then I refer
you to the home page above first and can then answer any specific questions
you may have.

The more criticism the better. You can reply to this thread or email me
directly and I'll summarize for the list.

Thanks for your time,

ka
---
Kevin Altis
altis@semi-retired.com

ps. If you *are* interested in PythonCard, you should join the mailing list
to contribute feedback...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users

_______________________________________________
wxpython-users mailing list
wxpython-users@lists.wxwindows.org
http://lists.wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wxpython-users

Kevin_Altis · August 28, 2001, 2:59pm

From: Doug

2. Looked at Boa and saw it consume the machine.

PythonCard does not require Boa. You can use any existing IDE like IDLE or
PythonWin, Emacs, VIM, whatever to edit code.

   1. The code it generates is well structured, readable, fully covers
       the details available within wxPython, and can be effectively used
       outside the PythonCard environment as well as within it.

PythonCard is not a code generator, it is an application framework. So the
only source code is what you create or copy from a sample. Any code you
create that relies on the PythonCard framework is going to require the
framework to be installed, just like any other Python package.

The important point for someone already adept at wxPython is that PythonCard
does not require the user (programmer) to use wxPython directly. It has its
own event model and widget set. The widget set is similar to wxPython, but
the syntax is simpler. Consequently, PythonCard is its own beast, in the
current prototype you do not have the full power of wxPython at your
disposal, though you can mix certain types of wxPython stuff in with the
code when PythonCard doesn't provide it. This divergence from
wxWindows/wxPython makes PythonCard much easier to use but is also its
achilles heal for someone wanting full wxPython or that already knows
wxWindows/wxPython intimately and is comfortable with it. It really depends
on the types of apps you want to do. In PythonCard you don't worry about
ids, binding events, etc. The amount of code you need to write for simple
programs is incredibly small. You really need to look at the samples to get
a better idea what I'm talking about, but here's a brief tutorial:

   2. I would benefit mostly from using a tool that facilitates gui
building, i.e.
       placement/size etc. The kinds of things that are still time
consuming and
       iterative with wxPython.

There is a resourceEditor sample in release 0.4.3 that is the beginnings of
a GUI editor. It actually works reasonably well, but is not even remotely as
sophisticated as Boa's frame designer, wxDesigner, etc. I've only spent a
couple of days on it. It allows you to add widgets, duplicate a widget,
position and resize widgets and the overall window and delete a widget. You
can use the runtime Property Editor window to change properties of widgets
besides size and position.

I hope this helps, and I wish you luck,

Doug Hoppe

Thanks for your comments!

ka

···

-----Original Message-----
From: wxpython-users-admin@lists.wxwindows.org
[mailto:wxpython-users-admin@lists.wxwindows.org]On Behalf Of Kevin
Altis
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 5:17 PM
To: Wxpython-Users
Subject: [wxPython] would you use PythonCard?

Hi,
most of you have probably seen PythonCard
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/
posts to the wxpython-users list.

I would like to get a feel for how many wxPython users on the
list are even
remotely interested in PythonCard? Just as importantly, I would
like to know
particular reasons for a lack of interest. This will help to focus how the
prototype evolves and who the target audience is. If you're in the camp of
"What the heck is PythonCard and why the heck should I care?" then I refer
you to the home page above first and can then answer any specific
questions
you may have.

The more criticism the better. You can reply to this thread or email me
directly and I'll summarize for the list.

Thanks for your time,

ka
---
Kevin Altis
altis@semi-retired.com

Bob_Klimek · August 28, 2001, 3:44pm

Hi,

Here's my two cents worth... The purpose of a package should be clearly defined and don't make the scope too big. From what I can gather PythonCard is a simple (at this point anyway) type of IDE. You can build a GUI and a Python editor is included. But I'm assuming that eventually you want it to grow to include Hypercard functionality. This is where it gets fuzzy for me.

I'm not a Mac user and I've never seen Hypercard in action so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I read on their web site, this package confuses me. It seems like a odd mixture of a number of other packages. It does GUI building, multimedia building and playing, presentation generation, and a few other things. It seems to be a mixture of wxDesigner, Gimp, Powerpoint, VirtualDub, Premiere, ... For me its focus is too vague. I mean, if GUI building is what you're after, then concentrate on it and build it up to be a superlative tool.

I do like Hypercard support of video files (AVI, MPEG1, QuickTime) and this is one area that is lacking in the cross-platform world.

Hope this helps.
Bob

···

At 02:17 PM 8/27/2001 -0700, you wrote:

Hi,
most of you have probably seen PythonCard
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/
posts to the wxpython-users list.

I would like to get a feel for how many wxPython users on the list are even
remotely interested in PythonCard? Just as importantly, I would like to know
particular reasons for a lack of interest. This will help to focus how the
prototype evolves and who the target audience is. If you're in the camp of
"What the heck is PythonCard and why the heck should I care?" then I refer
you to the home page above first and can then answer any specific questions
you may have.

The more criticism the better. You can reply to this thread or email me
directly and I'll summarize for the list.

Thanks for your time,

ka
---
Kevin Altis
altis@semi-retired.com

ps. If you *are* interested in PythonCard, you should join the mailing list
to contribute feedback...
pythoncard-users List Signup and Options

_______________________________________________
wxpython-users mailing list
wxpython-users@lists.wxwindows.org
http://lists.wxwindows.org/mailman/listinfo/wxpython-users

Kevin_Altis · August 28, 2001, 5:14pm

From: Bob Klimek

Here's my two cents worth... The purpose of a package should be clearly
defined and don't make the scope too big. From what I can gather
PythonCard
is a simple (at this point anyway) type of IDE. You can build a GUI and a
Python editor is included. But I'm assuming that eventually you

Actually, there is no editor as I mentioned in the previous email. I'm not
sure where people got the idea that there was one, I must have misspoke
somewhere. There are runtime tools: Message Watcher, Property Editor, and a
Shell which are good for debugging. The Property Editor is also used as part
of the GUI resourceEditor and the Shell is good for lots of things, not just
debugging.

want it to
grow to include Hypercard functionality. This is where it gets
fuzzy for me.

I'm not a Mac user and I've never seen Hypercard in action so take this
with a grain of salt, but from what I read on their web site,
this package
confuses me. It seems like a odd mixture of a number of other
packages. It
does GUI building, multimedia building and playing, presentation
generation, and a few other things. It seems to be a mixture of
wxDesigner,
Gimp, Powerpoint, VirtualDub, Premiere, ... For me its focus is
too vague.
I mean, if GUI building is what you're after, then concentrate on it and
build it up to be a superlative tool.

Yep, if you haven't used HyperCard, SuperCard, MetaCard, or Revolution it
might be easy to see what all the fuss is about; those other programs are
clones or descendants of HyperCard and I don't have much experience with
them. HyperCard was an environment, a "software erector set" and the beauty
of it was that the environment was transparent, so that you could start out
as just a plain user, but then start using more of the environment as you
got comfortable. In HyperCard terms these were userlevels; userlevel 2
allowed you to edit text and create and delete cards (records), userlevel 3
allowed you to add bitmap graphics and paint cards, userlevel 4 allowed you
to add widgets (buttons, fields), and userlevel 5 allowed you to do
scripting. Since all HyperCard apps (stacks) were built with the same
software erector set and used the same scripting language, any HyperCard app
(stack) you used was something you could modify and tweak.

HyperCard also provided many other things for "free" like persistant data
storage, fast text searching, visual effects. A library of GUI features that
isn't provided by any of the standard GUI libraries available today. There
really isn't anything quite like it.

HyperCard understandably confused/confuses many traditional developers and
it gained the most ground with users and casual developers, though the
developers that understood its power and could live with its limitations in
terms of speed, lack of color, etc. were able to be highly productive.
Assuming we don't screw up along the way, PythonCard will bring the same
paradigm shift to Python and make Python a viable language/tool for a whole
new class of users and developers.

As a side note, one of my own goals is to be able to create lots of small
focused apps that can exchange data dynamically and interact on a local
machine or across the net via SOAP or XML-RPC. I believe that smaller apps
are simpler to build, maintain, modify, and understand and superior to
bloating the code and UI of one app which is typically what happens.
PythonCard will be excellent for achieving this. Most of the sample apps
were written in an hour to an afternoon.

ka

···

At 02:17 PM 8/27/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi,
>most of you have probably seen PythonCard
> http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/
>posts to the wxpython-users list.
>
>I would like to get a feel for how many wxPython users on the
list are even
>remotely interested in PythonCard? Just as importantly, I would
like to know
>particular reasons for a lack of interest. This will help to
focus how the
>prototype evolves and who the target audience is. If you're in
the camp of
>"What the heck is PythonCard and why the heck should I care?"
then I refer
>you to the home page above first and can then answer any
specific questions
>you may have.
>
>The more criticism the better. You can reply to this thread or email me
>directly and I'll summarize for the list.
>
>Thanks for your time,
>
>ka
>---
>Kevin Altis
>altis@semi-retired.com
>
>ps. If you *are* interested in PythonCard, you should join the
mailing list
>to contribute feedback...
>pythoncard-users List Signup and Options