Hi all,
wxWidgets 2.5.5 was released this morning, so I am going to be shooting for a wxPython 2.5.5.x release this week. If you have any contribs or patches or whatever that you would like to get into this release then please send them to me ASAP.
The 2.6.0 release will probably also be happening real soon, in a couple weeks if wxWidgets folks stay on track.
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!
Excellent. How likely is it that I will be able to build this one against
the upstream wxWidgets 2.5.5 directly?
On Mon, Apr 04, 2005 at 10:23:45AM -0700, Robin Dunn wrote:
wxWidgets 2.5.5 was released this morning, so I am going to be shooting
for a wxPython 2.5.5.x release this week. If you have any contribs or
patches or whatever that you would like to get into this release then
please send them to me ASAP.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Apr 04, 2005 at 10:23:45AM -0700, Robin Dunn wrote:
wxWidgets 2.5.5 was released this morning, so I am going to be shooting for a wxPython 2.5.5.x release this week. If you have any contribs or patches or whatever that you would like to get into this release then please send them to me ASAP.
Excellent. How likely is it that I will be able to build this one against
the upstream wxWidgets 2.5.5 directly?
Very likely. As of this moment there is nothing on my "ToDo before release" list that will need changes to wxWidgets.
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!
Cool. Thank you very much!
On Mon, Apr 04, 2005 at 11:31:40AM -0700, Robin Dunn wrote:
>Excellent. How likely is it that I will be able to build this one against
>the upstream wxWidgets 2.5.5 directly?
Very likely. As of this moment there is nothing on my "ToDo before
release" list that will need changes to wxWidgets.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
Thanks Robin!
Regarding 2.6, will there be back-ports of "important" fixes to 2.6 (fixes important enough but that don't break api compatibility) from the 2.7 branch? Do you foresee a 2.8 in one year, two years, more, or less? I apologize if these questions have been answered previously.
Your work and the work of the other wxPython/wxWidgets developers is greatly appreciated around here. Congratulations on making wxPython even better than it was in 2.4.2.4, when I first became aware of its existence. It has certainly improved greatly during that time!
--
pkm ~ http://paulmcnett.com
Paul McNett wrote:
Thanks Robin!
Regarding 2.6, will there be back-ports of "important" fixes to 2.6 (fixes important enough but that don't break api compatibility) from the 2.7 branch?
There is usually a period of time where the developers will activly backport changes, and then it tapers off after a while as they focus more on the new version. Note that for wxWigets fixes they also need to be binary compatible, which means that the in-memory layout of classes and data structures can't change, new vertual methods can't be added, etc. For wxPython though all we need to care about is the API compatibility of course.
Do you foresee a 2.8 in one year, two years, more, or less?
2.4 was about 2 years ago, so it is very possible that it could be that long again. On the other hand, I think that the pace has picked up a bit lately and there has been talk of some things that people are wanting to have but that it's too late to get them in 2.6, so that could mean that 2.7 will be a relativly short cycle.
I apologize if these questions have been answered previously.
Your work and the work of the other wxPython/wxWidgets developers is greatly appreciated around here. Congratulations on making wxPython even better than it was in 2.4.2.4, when I first became aware of its existence. It has certainly improved greatly during that time!
Thanks!
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!
BTW, the RC1 verison is building right now. I know I just announced this morning that it was coming soon and so get your changes to me, etc., etc. Don't worry about not having made the cutoff, because it hasn't really happened yet. It was just easier to fire off a rc build when I did it today.
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!
Robin Dunn wrote:
BTW, the RC1 verison is building right now. I know I just announced this morning that it was coming soon and so get your changes to me, etc., etc. Don't worry about not having made the cutoff, because it hasn't really happened yet. It was just easier to fire off a rc build when I did it today.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention a couple things. I'm making Python 2.4 packages for OSX 10.3 using the Python 2.4.1 package from Python Stuff. I've only had this building for a couple days so it will need a bit of testing. I feel confident about the actual wxPython modules, but I feel like maybe I've forgotten something in the build script and installer packages.
Not all of the RPM builds are being done since I didn't turn on one of the build machines before I started.
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!
any chance wx could adopt a time based release cycle (scheduled releases) like Gnome or Ubuntu?
In my view this brings focus to the development cycle.
I've said it before, I'll say it again... with the exception of few preview releases *ALL* wxpython releases from the 2.5 branch proved just as stable as 2.4.2.4 yet many people still remain with 2.4.2.4 because that is "the latest stable release".
Maybe there is a reason why Ubuntu apeals to people more than Debian, maybe there are some things they get right...
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 06:15:23 +0300, Robin Dunn <robin@alldunn.com> wrote:
Paul McNett wrote:
Do you foresee a 2.8 in one year, two years, more, or less?
2.4 was about 2 years ago, so it is very possible that it could be that long again. On the other hand, I think that the pace has picked up a bit lately and there has been talk of some things that people are wanting to have but that it's too late to get them in 2.6, so that could mean that 2.7 will be a relativly short cycle.
--
Peter Damoc
Warrior Of The Light
http://www.sigmacore.net/
Peter Damoc wrote:
Maybe there is a reason why Ubuntu apeals to people more than Debian, maybe there are some things they get right...
I installed Ubuntu originally because it was super-easy. I didn't need to read up on Debian philosophy or get familiar with the innards of the package management system. I didn't need to learn stuff to make decisions on how to install it. It just installed. Once installed, I could then "see the light" and realize that Debian has the best package management system on the planet.
IOW, Ubuntu got me from the world of RedHat to the world of Debian, where plain Debian probably wouldn't have done that. My system is staying very up to date for the first time in years, as well.
How does this apply to wxPython - not sure. But Ubuntu rocks!
--
pkm ~ http://paulmcnett.com
Peter Damoc wrote:
Paul McNett wrote:
Do you foresee a 2.8 in one year, two years, more, or less?
2.4 was about 2 years ago, so it is very possible that it could be that long again. On the other hand, I think that the pace has picked up a bit lately and there has been talk of some things that people are wanting to have but that it's too late to get them in 2.6, so that could mean that 2.7 will be a relativly short cycle.
any chance wx could adopt a time based release cycle (scheduled releases) like Gnome or Ubuntu?
In my view this brings focus to the development cycle.
Probably not. Whenever any sort of project management topics come up they usually degrade into a flaming tornado of death. 
Pert of the problem is that other than myself I don't think that there is anybody working full-time on the project and even those who were very active in the past have not been able to dedicate as much time to the project for the past few years because of other obligations.
I've said it before, I'll say it again... with the exception of few preview releases *ALL* wxpython releases from the 2.5 branch proved just as stable as 2.4.2.4 yet many people still remain with 2.4.2.4 because that is "the latest stable release".
Yep.
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 06:15:23 +0300, Robin Dunn <robin@alldunn.com> wrote:
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!
Part of this is a distribution issue. It may seem initially paradoxical
to realise that wxPython at any given moment is generally more stable
than the library it is 'built on', but anecdotally it seems to often
be the case.
That makes things hard, because pressure comes from the Python community
to release the underlying lib before _it_ is ready.
wx2.5 is certainly not a stable library, however 'bug free' wxPython may
be. You seem to be confusing these two things. All wxPython releases
are **by definition** 'stable' -- ie. we don't change them any more.
Hopefully the C++ library team will move into the mode of testing and
careful changes that have been employed here for the last several months
once it is declared 'stable' too. At least the last minute API changes
should slow a little I hope, and the chances of a tagged release actually
building will increase...
Ron
On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 02:53:57PM -0700, Robin Dunn wrote:
>I've said it before, I'll say it again... with the exception of few
>preview releases *ALL* wxpython releases from the 2.5 branch proved
>just as stable as 2.4.2.4 yet many people still remain with 2.4.2.4
>because that is "the latest stable release".Yep.
>I've said it before, I'll say it again... with the exception of few
>preview releases *ALL* wxpython releases from the 2.5 branch proved
>just as stable as 2.4.2.4 yet many people still remain with 2.4.2.4
>because that is "the latest stable release".Yep.
Part of this is a distribution issue. It may seem initially paradoxical
to realise that wxPython at any given moment is generally more stable
than the library it is 'built on', but anecdotally it seems to often
be the case.
I think is due to the glue.... a lot of problems get caught in the glue layer
That makes things hard, because pressure comes from the Python community
to release the underlying lib before _it_ is ready.
you'll never be able to make the lib "perfect"... that's why I think scheduled releases make sense. They impose discipline too... (1-2 months API freeze before release would be great).
wx2.5 is certainly not a stable library, however 'bug free' wxPython may
be. You seem to be confusing these two things. All wxPython releases
are **by definition** 'stable' -- ie. we don't change them any more.
Again with the glue.... I think wxpython "stability" is due to the lack of the low level bugs, is due to the marriage with python
Hopefully the C++ library team will move into the mode of testing and
careful changes that have been employed here for the last several months
once it is declared 'stable' too. At least the last minute API changes
should slow a little I hope, and the chances of a tagged release actually
building will increase...
sometimes too much freedom can hurt too. Dictatorship is good if the dictator is a benevolent one
I don't understand how project management issues can "degrade into a flaming tornado of death" when is crystal clear, at least in my view, the fact that Robin has the best overview of the wx project since he works full time on it, his opinion should weight a lot more that the opinion of any other developer. I'm not saying that he should slice and dice as he pleases BUT his position should prevent the flaming. Let them vote on it if they think themselves as democratic.
my 2 c.
On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 05:00:58 +0300, Ron <ron@debian.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 02:53:57PM -0700, Robin Dunn wrote:
Ron
--
Peter Damoc
Warrior Of The Light
http://www.sigmacore.net/
>>>I've said it before, I'll say it again... with the exception of few
>>>preview releases *ALL* wxpython releases from the 2.5 branch proved
>>>just as stable as 2.4.2.4 yet many people still remain with 2.4.2.4
>>>because that is "the latest stable release".
>>
>>Yep.
>
>Part of this is a distribution issue. It may seem initially paradoxical
>to realise that wxPython at any given moment is generally more stable
>than the library it is 'built on', but anecdotally it seems to often
>be the case.I think is due to the glue.... a lot of problems get caught in the glue
layer
Robin has a new nickname ? ; )
>That makes things hard, because pressure comes from the Python community
>to release the underlying lib before _it_ is ready.you'll never be able to make the lib "perfect"...
lately I'll settle for 'compiles'...
that's why I think
scheduled releases make sense. They impose discipline too... (1-2 months
API freeze before release would be great).
Don't get me wrong, I love deadlines. They solve the halting problem.
And like the late D.A. I especially love the whooshing sound they make
as they go by.
But they _don't_ improve quality, or the decisions about how to do that.
And if you'll flip through the last couple of months worth of wx-dev,
you'll see what happens when discipline and pragmatism meet a deadline
in the cold light of day.
>wx2.5 is certainly not a stable library, however 'bug free' wxPython may
>be. You seem to be confusing these two things. All wxPython releases
>are **by definition** 'stable' -- ie. we don't change them any more.Again with the glue.... I think wxpython "stability" is due to the lack of
the low level bugs, is due to the marriage with python
You are still missing the point. Its "stability" is because Robin will
cluebat anyone who changes the api unnecessarily. The presence or lack
of bugs at whatever level is irrelevant to that. libwx is not stable,
its api changes every day, even during a 'freeze', and without consultation
or research before a deadline.
That Robin shields you from this moving target seems to be what you
attribute to 'glue'.
When libwx stops doing this we can call it stable, and only then can
we realistically start to count the number of remaining bugs and
assess its suitability for production use. Its got nothing to do with
being perfect, but there is a little more finesse involved than just
drawing a line in the sand and calling it release day.
There are a lot more factors at play than you so far give credit to.
>Hopefully the C++ library team will move into the mode of testing and
>careful changes that have been employed here for the last several months
>once it is declared 'stable' too. At least the last minute API changes
>should slow a little I hope, and the chances of a tagged release actually
>building will increase...sometimes too much freedom can hurt too. Dictatorship is good if the
dictator is a benevolent one
I'll take a good and fair 'king' over a bureau of thugs any day, but you
can't have it both ways. You either need to dictate or listen. I
haven't seen too many swords pulled from rocks around here lately 
I don't understand how project management issues can "degrade into a
flaming tornado of death" when is crystal clear,
Subscribe to wx-dev and give it a whirl ... But its on your own neck
if you do. I won't feed that fire.
at least in my view, the
fact that Robin has the best overview of the wx project since he works
full time on it, his opinion should weight a lot more that the opinion of
any other developer.
Even if it is dumb? That is just stupid. His opinion should weigh on
its own merit. There are plenty of reasons that Robin's opinion is well
received by many, including myself, without needing to stoop to such
shallow means of picking an arbiter.
I'm not saying that he should slice and dice as he
pleases BUT his position should prevent the flaming. Let them vote on it
if they think themselves as democratic.
Like the U.S. we never profess to be democratic ourselves. We're a
bunch of rabid egos all chasing different bunnies. We'll listen to
you if you are smart or one of the few that actually do write code
that is useful to others, but we never promised to give you a vote,
just the freedom to take the source and do it your way, any time you
think ours isn't working anymore.
But that takes real leadership, and real vision. The trouble with
dictators these days is they all seem to want to come into the job
straight out of school. Who's going to unite behind a stand-up
dictator with nothing of substance to dictate?
If you want to change this, there will need to be a coup. Whether or
not it is bloodless will show whether or not you were qualified to
lead it...
If voting changed anything, it would be illegal.
Ron
On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 09:05:42AM +0300, Peter Damoc wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 05:00:58 +0300, Ron <ron@debian.org> wrote:
>On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 02:53:57PM -0700, Robin Dunn wrote:
[...]
That Robin shields you from this moving target seems to be what you
attribute to 'glue'.
One more reason for me to admire Robin
When libwx stops doing this we can call it stable, and only then can
we realistically start to count the number of remaining bugs and
assess its suitability for production use. Its got nothing to do with
being perfect, but there is a little more finesse involved than just
drawing a line in the sand and calling it release day.There are a lot more factors at play than you so far give credit to.
What can I say... I am naive
I'll take a good and fair 'king' over a bureau of thugs any day, but you
can't have it both ways. You either need to dictate or listen. I
haven't seen too many swords pulled from rocks around here lately
You can listen and dictate when necessary as for the swords... I liked the one pulled by Mark Shuttleworth last october
I don't understand how project management issues can "degrade into a
flaming tornado of death" when is crystal clear,Subscribe to wx-dev and give it a whirl ... But its on your own neck
if you do. I won't feed that fire.
no thank you
at least in my view, the
fact that Robin has the best overview of the wx project since he works
full time on it, his opinion should weight a lot more that the opinion of
any other developer.Even if it is dumb? That is just stupid. His opinion should weigh on
its own merit. There are plenty of reasons that Robin's opinion is well
received by many, including myself, without needing to stoop to such
shallow means of picking an arbiter.
There are people that lead and people that follow, I'm one of those follow people. As a matter of fact I kinda hate leading, too much responsibility... i feel way more comfortable as a bee i think it has something to do with my personality type
Also... a flock without a shepherd is at risk because sometimes strength comes from being together and having someone to look at, someone who in turn will look for us. This doesn't mean that people should follow every "dumb" leader wannabe BUT 1. Robin is not dumb, 2. he proved, at least to me, that he can do it. Also, I never meant to pick Robin simply because he works full time on wx BUT because he has the best overview.
[...]
But that takes real leadership, and real vision. The trouble with
dictators these days is they all seem to want to come into the job
straight out of school. Who's going to unite behind a stand-up
dictator with nothing of substance to dictate?
Valid points but... i don't see how they apply to Robin.
If you want to change this, there will need to be a coup. Whether or
not it is bloodless will show whether or not you were qualified to
lead it...
I don't want to lead anything it was just a humble suggestion.
If voting changed anything, it would be illegal.
that's a good one, I'm not an anarchist but looking at my country... I couldn't agree more
Ron
Peter.
On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 10:53:03 +0300, Ron <ron@debian.org> wrote:
Hi,
I have found any problems on the demo (wxPython 2.5.5.0rc2 unicode, python 2.3, windows 98):
- wx.FileDropTarget on OnDropFiles(self, x, y, filenames), filenames returns an array with unicode characters.
ex: [u't', u'e', u's', u't', u'.', u't', u'x', u't']
If the string is no an unicode string, so the drop works fine.
I have tested with a windows explorer for the drag operation
- this case is the same with the clipboard operation (copy, paste)
Best regards.
webmaster@keyphrene.com wrote:
Hi,
I have found any problems on the demo (wxPython 2.5.5.0rc2 unicode, python 2.3, windows 98):
Windows 98 has only very limited support for unicode and the "wide character APIs".
- wx.FileDropTarget on OnDropFiles(self, x, y, filenames), filenames returns an array with unicode characters.
ex: [u't', u'e', u's', u't', u'.', u't', u'x', u't']
If the string is no an unicode string, so the drop works fine.
I have tested with a windows explorer for the drag operation
I can't duplicate this. If I drag a file into the DragAndDrop demo the file(s) are correctly represented.
- this case is the same with the clipboard operation (copy, paste)
Probably because wxWidgets only puts a unicode object on the clipboard, or expects to find one there, and the other apps you are trying to copy.paste from are only using 8-bit ansi strings. I don't know if this can be resolved before 2.6 is released but I'll look into it.
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!